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The Right Rev Chumley
I encoded my latest episode with QTpro and have had no problems with the MPEG-4, but tried out H.264 with custom settings this time as I feel it looks better with smaller compression sizes.

Here's the rub, I set it at Baseline only, Bitrate of 300kbps and 24 f/s with an audio of 48kbps 32khz and transcoded. Hours later it plays fine and looks great but wont transfer to my video iPod.

Whats up? It seems to fall within the mystical paramaters from apple. Anyone have a clue?
The Right Rev Chumley
AHA!

I'm stuck at work so cant test this, but it seems logical as I was using the 2 pass high quality. I'll try to encode with the same setting on single pass and see what happens.

**found at apple.com****

I currently have 60 movie clips, as well as, two "home grown" podcasts on my iPod. All of them are in the H.264/AAC format. There seem to be two major causes of inability to sync using HandBrake.

1) The first is the failure to use the Baseline (1.3 Profile) and

2) The failure by users to adjust their settings according to the movie content. Excessive dark scenes or those with a lot of action sequences against a complex background can cause your average data rate to peak at twice your average video data rate when using high quality, multi-pass H.264 setting. The iPod does not use your average video data rate when determining whether or not to sync a file. Instead, it uses the "peak" data rate. Normally there are two solutions here.

a) Continue to use the high quality, multi-pass ("constant quality") settings, but reduce the video data rate or

cool.gif Keep the higher video data rate and switch to a lower quality, single pass mode. In this case, these peaks are "clipped" and thus prevent them from exceeding the iPod limits but at the expense of reduced quality for the scenes which normally trigger these spikes in data rate.

2.0GHZ G5/533MHz G4 DeskTop/400MHz G4 PB Mac OS X (10.4.3)
MadBrad
Peace,

Let us know how your test works.

I hate all this trial and error stuff with regard to proper encoding for cross platform podcasting.

/rant

Sry for the rant.

Good luck.
The Right Rev Chumley
bah, tried a encode at the same bitrate and stuff but with single pass. No go. Still wont transfer to my ipod.
Craig
QUOTE(The Right Rev Chumley @ Feb 14 2006, 11:28 AM) *
bah, tried a encode at the same bitrate and stuff but with single pass. No go. Still wont transfer to my ipod.

If all else fails, select the problematic file in iTunes and use the "Advanced->Convert Selection for iPod" menu otpion. This will create a copy of the file that will work properly. I've used this on several video podcasts that don't transfer and haven't had a problem yet with the files it produces. It may not solve the problem long-term, but at least it eliminates short-term frustrations.

You can also use this technique with a higher-resolution file in a different format if you're saving your file in different formats. As long as you can import the file into iTunes and play it you should be all set.

Craig
Guest
As far as I know that option merely transcodes the file with the "standard" ipod setting from quicktime. That one works of course, but you have no control over the size of the file. I have no problems transcoding a file that works on the ipod, with either the Export to ipod selection or in any bitrate as an mpeg4 file from Qtpro.

My problem is in custom configurations of H.264 manipulating size of the file with bitrates. Just so everyone understands that Im not having problems making a file work with ipods, been doing that for a while now. I'm just having the specific problems mentioned above.
The Right Rev Chumley
QUOTE(Guest @ Feb 14 2006, 03:48 PM) *
As far as I know that option merely transcodes the file with the "standard" ipod setting from quicktime. That one works of course, but you have no control over the size of the file. I have no problems transcoding a file that works on the ipod, with either the Export to ipod selection or in any bitrate as an mpeg4 file from Qtpro.

My problem is in custom configurations of H.264 manipulating size of the file with bitrates. Just so everyone understands that Im not having problems making a file work with ipods, been doing that for a while now. I'm just having the specific problems mentioned above.


Bah, that was me. Sorry. And if im wrong about that option, and it doesnt change the size of the file or quality of the file let me know.
The Right Rev Chumley
Well I finally found out what I was doing wrong. I had forgotten to set the AUDIO to AAC-LC. Apparently its not the defalt setting. I was so involved with messing with the video settings I neglected to inspect the audio closely.



I'm cut and pasting this post from podcastnyc here for safe keeping. Its some great stuff.

QUOTE(podcastnyc @ Jan 28 2006, 05:57 PM) *
It's been a stiff learning curve but I've got it worked out. I had been using QuickTime Pro's Export=> Video For iPod feature and I wasn't 100% happy with the results. I wanted to be able to tweak the settings, such as Frames Per Second and Audio Quality to control file sizes on the videos. I did a bit of searching for info and was able to find this info in a forum post thanks to Nat of Big Contact.

A quick note on encoding. The $30 for QuickTime Pro is well worth it. Also, I dropped $60 for the Canopus ProCoder Express product that I heard about on the G'Day World podcast. I like to edit in Windows Movie Maker and this product gives me a great conversion from WMV to MOV without any problems. Other products I tried out had took way too long and the video was out of sync with the audio as mentioned above.

Here's the full post on encoding to MP4 for the Video iPod:

This is for the brothers and sisters who want to put out QuickTime mov files using the H.264 codec, but want them to work on iPods as well.

A mov H.264 file has to use the "baseline" profile or it won't work on an iPod. Problem is, QuickTime doesn't give you that option when you export to a mov file. Yet you have to use mov if you want to retain
special QuickTime features like clickable links and other interactive/funky stuff.

But there's a workaround that allows you to use the baseline profile and make your mov file ipoddable.

* Export -> Movie to MPEG-4 file. Dig around in the settings and options and select the H.264 codec, along with the framerate, bitrates etc. that you like. And, vitally, the BASELINE profile. Baseline is
non-negotiable - my suggestions for the other settings come later on. Make sure you've selected AAC audio, too. This first step is where you'll be doing your compression of both video and audio, so make sure
you get the settings right for a good squeeze.

* Once you've exported (it might take a while), open the resulting file in QuickTime. Add any text tracks, hyperlinks etc. THEN choose SAVE AS and select the option to save your movie as a self-contained
movie. This should be fairly quick.

What you get is a mov file that contains baseline H.264 and it will definitely work on an iPod. Of course, your links can't be clicked on an iPod (yet) but people don't only watch your vids on an iPod do they???

OK, full credit to Mike and Steve for their work on this. Here are my suggestions (previously posted elsewhere) for settings that produce very watchable video at a reasonable file size.

These are based on Mike Verdi's 3ivx specs I've been using for a while. They produce a slightly larger file (14.5 meg, compared with about 13.8 for 3ivx). But the H.264 version supports a 50% higher bitrate than 3ivx; and a framerate of 24 compared with 12 for 3ivx. It is definitely more watchable than the
3ivx version.

Remember, these are the settings you use when originally exporting your movie to an MPEG-4:

File format, MP4
Video format, H.264
Data rate, 225 kilobits/second (roughly 28 kilobytes/sec)
Optimized for download
Image size 320 x 240 QVGA
Frame Rate 24
Key Frame, automatic
Frame Reordering, box ticked
Then click Video Options, and ...
Restrict profile(s) to baseline.
Encoding mode best quality (multi-pass)
Then click OK
Now in the second-top drop-down box select Audi
Format, AAC
Channels, mono
Data Rate 32kbps
Output sample rate 22.050kHz
Encoding quality better

OK, then SAVE.

You're now outputting your MPEG-4. Follow the instructions above to save the resulting file as a mov file.

Hope this helps someone,
Waz.
www.crashtestkitchen.com
MadBrad
cool beans

I'm glad you got that worked out :-)
The Right Rev Chumley
Bah! Still didnt work. Shame too. with H.264 I can get a good looking file almost 100 meg smaller than the Mp4 version.
Guest
QUOTE(The Right Rev Chumley @ Feb 19 2006, 02:06 PM) *
Bah! Still didnt work. Shame too. with H.264 I can get a good looking file almost 100 meg smaller than the Mp4 version.


Are you still encoding your audio at 48kbps? Could try 44kbps or 22 kpbs

Also, is there a specific error message you're getting?

Eric
The Right Rev Chumley
I've tried a few differnt audio settings, nothing has worked so far with H.264.

As far as errors just the standard, this file is not compatable with the ipod message iTunes gives you. It always plays fine in itunes.
MadBrad
Peace,

Have you tried to use a keyframe setting of automatic, and framerate current?

I like to try to use as few customs settings as possible.

Peace.
The Right Rev Chumley
As per the above article these are the settings I used.

File format, MP4
Video format, H.264
Data rate, 225 kilobits/second (roughly 28 kilobytes/sec)
Optimized for download
Image size 320 x 240 QVGA
Frame Rate 24
Key Frame, automatic
Frame Reordering, box ticked
Then click Video Options, and ...
Restrict profile(s) to baseline.
Encoding mode best quality (multi-pass)
Then click OK
Now in the second-top drop-down box select Audi
Format, AAC
Channels, mono
Data Rate 32kbps
Output sample rate 22.050kHz
Encoding quality better

the only difference is i left it in stereo instead of mono.

Didnt work. I've tried it with auto and with custom keyframes etc.. If I had hair I would be pulling it out.
MadBrad
sad.gif

I'm sorry bro.

I'm lost...
The Right Rev Chumley
Me too, thanks for trying to help everyone.

Mpeg4 it is then!
guest
I stumbled across this post while searching for any help on the same problem. I have discovered after multiple trial and error tests, that QT v7.0.4 breaks the baseline encoding your are attempting to utilize. v7.0.3 worked just fine as stated above, however the most recent version broke it. Apple has been notified, and I've no idea if they are actually interested in fixing it. Too bad, as dropping back to v7.0.3 is your only recourse. Perhaps if they fix it, they'll speed up their encoding process too. For now, I use iSquint and receive equally good video podcast files, but at a slightly larger filesize.
The Right Rev Chumley
Cool, thanks for the reply, I'll see if I cant get a copy of 7.0.3
Mike (with a 5-hour headache...)
QUOTE(The Right Rev Chumley @ Mar 13 2006, 07:00 AM) *
Cool, thanks for the reply, I'll see if I cant get a copy of 7.0.3


Yow. My head head hurts. Yes, indeed. After reading note after note about how to make sure that "Baseline" is checked (how many times can I make sure it's checked?!?)... that was not the problem when getting the error "Some of the videos... not copied to iPod... because they cannot be played on this iPod"...

It was that I did indeed have QuickTime 7.0.4 installed (why wouldn't I have it installed???). To revert to 7.0.3, I went to the Apple Website and found that I had to use the "QuickTime 7.0.1 Reinstaller for QuickTime 7.0.4":
http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/qui...icktime704.html

and then update to QuickTime 7.0.3 using:
http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/quicktime703.html

JEESH! (Hope these links save some people some time as they are reaching for their asprin...)
~Mike
Mike (with a 7-hour headache...)
So, one more thought if you are continuing to get that error message when moving you video to your iPod... Check the bitrate for H.264 encoding... Although it is documented to play up to 768 kbps, I found that it was not accepting videos more in the range of 700 kbps or so. I can only imagine that this is due to spikes in the data rate? Who knows? Anyone?

So -- my advice -- encode as above with QuickTime 7.0.3 (NOT 7.0.4) and watch your data rate...

~Mike
Mike (with a 2-DAY headache... h
OK. So...

I reinstalled to QuicTime 7.0.1 then upgraded to 7.0.3 using the above links. Cool.
My little clip now works happilt on my 5G iPod as long as I don't get too crazy with the H.264 data rate.

BUT!

Now I am trying a different clip... exact same settings (H.264 at around 400 kbps to avoid any data rate conflicts) and it won't transfer to my friggin' iPod. (I am going to have such a great run after work tonight...)

So, different clips -- exact same settings. One will transfer to iPod, one won't.

Any ideas? My source is DV... I am using QuickTime Pro 7.0.3 to export to MP4:

Export Movie to MP4:

Video:
Format: H.264
Data Rate: 400 kbps
Optimized: Download
Image Size: 320 x 240 QVGA
Frame Rate: Current (29.97 for DV)
Key Frame: Automatic

Video Options:
Restrict Porfile(s) to: Baseline
Encoding: Best quality (Multi-pass)

Audio:
Format: AAC-LC (Music)
Data rate: 96 kbps
Channels: Mono
Output Sample Rate: 48.000 kHz
Encoding Quality: Better

Streaming -- not selected.
The Right Rev Chumley
All I can think of is that it's a more dynamic clip and your bitrate is jumping above 768 in the more active scenes or something. Try setting it to single pass instead of Best quality Multipass (should clip anything causing the trouble) see if that solves it.

Oh and I just checked into the links you have, I'm on a PC so those links are no good for me sad.gif
guest
Until Apple gets their h.264 ducks in a row, you might save yourself the headaches and use iSquint. It creates compatible quality ipod mp4 video files - in about half the time as QT. And it's free.

http://isquint.org/

If you're into more control than iSquint offers, you could also use ffmpegx. A bit more complex, but also works like a champ. File size is your only real sacrifice. Also free.

http://homepage.mac.com/major4/
Mike_Headache
QUOTE(The Right Rev Chumley @ Mar 14 2006, 08:39 PM) *
All I can think of is that it's a more dynamic clip and your bitrate is jumping above 768 in the more active scenes or something. Try setting it to single pass instead of Best quality Multipass (should clip anything causing the trouble) see if that solves it.

Oh and I just checked into the links you have, I'm on a PC so those links are no good for me :(


Sorry about the links being just on Mac (well -- I'm just a Mac guy so there you go...)

But, I THINK (not being a PC guy...) that you can unistall QuickTime with "Add or Remove Programs" control panel as documented here:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=60342

and reinstall QuickTime 7.0.3 with the link provided at the bottom of their update page:
http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/quicktime703.html
which is:
http://appldnld.m7z.net/qtinstall.info.app...meInstaller.exe

I will be testing a few things today and post my findings... the odd thing about the clip that doesn't work is that I have lowered the bitrate to 400 kbps and still no go... But trying the other clip does work. Very odd... I will also try the other apps suggested and let y'all know what I find out.

Thanks for the comments and support... Nice to know that people are out there to help each other!

~Mike (who's got the asprin???)
Confirmation that Quicktime 7.0.
Thank god for you guys and this thread.

I was tearing my hair out trying to figure out how I had suddenly lost the ability to export out custom iPod compatible .mp4 h.264 files from Quicktime Pro.

At first I was thinking it was the 1.1 firmware update for my iPod so I reverted back but still no go. I suspected 7.0.4 but I wasn't aware that Apple actually had a downgrader patch for it. Thank you guys very much for this information (I'm running 7.0.3 now)

Still, I could have sworn that I was able to create iPod compatible files using 2-pass encoding with Quicktime Pro. Even after downgrading, I'm only successful with 1 pass encoding set in Quicktime for h.264. Perhaps 2 pass got broken with a security patch or something?

I know in earlier versions of Quicktime or Tiger, the Quicktime "Movie to iPod" would do 2 pass encoding but now it supposedly only does 1 pass (thus the extraordinary speed "improvements" Apple claims). So even that non-custom route is no longer available when seeking quality.

iSquint is alright but like many of the other freeware and shareware programs (except for HandBrake which rocks on every level) it suffers from audio sync issues. At least, Quicktime Pro seems to be pretty good at not having audio sync issues...if only HandBrake could input files other than DVD.

mk2000
The Right Rev Chumley
THANK YOU MIKE!

I finally got through with my new intro for the show and decided to swap out QT. Low and behold H.264 works in 7.03 and looks tons better than standard MP4 encoding.

/bow Mike
Mike_Headache
You're most welcome...

By the way... in all that I've looked in to, I've had the best luck (being sure to use QT 7.0.3) with the new version 1.3.1 of iSquint and version 4.3 of Sorenson Squeeze.

Version 1.3.1 of iSqueeze:
www.isqueeze.org
is pretty amazingly fast. I find the resulting video a bit dark, but this newly released version seems quite solid.

I have also been having good luck with Sorenson Squeeze 4.3 which gives many more controls for picture attributes. However, I have had issues with the 60GB iPod freeze issues. BUT! On the iSqueeze main page is a link for an AppleScript that will "remux" ("fix" to me...) movies so you don't have to recompress old movies... I can compress in Squeeze and "Remux" them. Seems to work nicely...

Read the ReMux fix at:
www.isqueeze.org
(Look for: "AppleScript to fix up previously-converted videos for 1.1 Firmware")

The new iSquint version 1.3.1 claims not to have the 1.1 Firmware problem, and claims to resolve many audio sync issues... and is the lease expensive option out there that seems to give fine fast results. For more control, check out Squeeze and the Remux option.

Mike
Mike_Headache
DOH! Sorry! Woopsies!

I got my links messed in the last message...

AppleScript to fix up previously-converted videos for 1.1 Firmware
is at...

www.isquint.org
Christiana
Hooray!

Delving back into this old thread helped me encode 50 Pounds, 6 Months into a higher quality, smaller file version! Downdating Quicktime to the previous version did the trick!
Conrad Slater
Just to confirm, is everyone in agreement that these are recommended settings for vidcasts? (From above)

Video:
Format: H.264
Data Rate: 400 kbps
Optimized: Download
Image Size: 320 x 240 QVGA
Frame Rate: Current (29.97 for DV)
Key Frame: Automatic

Video Options:
Restrict Porfile(s) to: Baseline
Encoding: Best quality (Multi-pass)

Audio:
Format: AAC-LC (Music)
Data rate: 96 kbps
Channels: Mono
Output Sample Rate: 48.000 kHz
Encoding Quality: Better
The Right Rev Chumley
Works for me, although sometimes if your show has wild movement or color swings you might have to set it to one pass instead of two so that it will clip at a lower rate. Rare though.
Conrad Slater
Thanks, I've done the 7.0.3 thing now so I'll give it a try.
MoonLitNite
FYI - I've noticed a few top vodcaster are still plauged by the H.264 problem. DV Gear and Cranky Geeks are a few that come to mind. My iPod (30G running latest software) gets the message:

Some of the songs and videos in your iTunes library, including the items "Cranky Geeks 015", were not copied to the iPod "(my name) iPod" because they cannot be played on this iPod.

As you probably are all aware, trying the iTunes "Advanced/Convert Selection for iPod" does not help. BTW, I'm running Windows XP with the latest iTunes, QT Pro, etc.

Anyway, the point is I see Cranky Geeks actually uses the brute force approach, generating FOUR video feeds:

H.264
"For the video iPod" MPEG4 (adjusted for iPod)
MPEG4 (no special tweaks)
WMV

So for Cranky's site, I've removed the H.264 link and now use one of the MPEG4s

I wonder if the Sorenson codec running on the iPod may have a performance limitation causing the problem. I noted on the Apple site, the cite a maximum total bit rate of 768Kbps.

Anyway, good luck with your R&D workarounds until Apple gets a fix (or using a different/dual format)

Regards,

Michael
Conrad Slater
According to Apple, the new Quicktime (7.1) now solves this problem. As I don't have a video ipod I can't tell but I can tell you the standard export to ipod is faster than before - it's just such a shame it's such big files.
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